Autotrader.com for sale? Not anymore – is that too bad?

I'm not buying that their revenues are up. Not in this economy... dealers are slashing their advertisement budgets.

Cox has a signifcant amount of debt it has to get rid of AT will bring Cox a lot of cash it will use to pay down that debt.

Ony problem is, acquisitions aren't happening while the credit crisis is ongoing. So they had to take it off the market for the time being.

I'd like to have the over at 150 posts!

From the Ward's article 'Sources say the process didn’t get far enough with interested buyers to determine a possible price. Although there were several interested purchasers, the current market environment makes it difficult to contemplate such a large transaction."

Who do you think the "interested purchasers" are and what would they do to the product?

635 million in revenue is a crazy amount of cash! I wonder how much they were hoping for? Going off what some dot com's have sold for that didn't have any revenue and using atc math, 635 billion will be the buy it now price! I think dealer refresh should start a buy autotrader.com fund. Could you imagine if the dealer community owned atc?

Oh and Ryan, I see that you have learned that you never take the under on ATC. Alex I hope you have learned your lesson as well

We are a software company based in Tulsa Oklahoma. We have about 80 dealer customers. For the last couple of Months, we start to have dealer calling us and ask if they can do any Ad besides AutoTrader.com. (Half of our dealer use AT) This has never happen before since we assume AT give them the result or return that dealer expected. Now we have to assume AT is NOT performing well as they used to do.

Some comments from our dealer customer

1) Cars.com is performing the same as AT, but with lower price tag
2) Price increasing is beyond dealer’s budget
3) We feed our dealer’s inventory to AOL, MySpace, Google Base really help dealer to get more attention.
4) We have been looking at all AT customer in Tulsa Area, we have not seen their customer base grow like they used to be.
5) Craigslist give dealer VERY positive results.


Can you share your comments on AT results? return? ROI?

Thanks

David

The revenue of AT is very questionable in the present market. AT is a online classified ad. They do not project,or claim to be a lead provider and unless you have an internel method to track where your customers originate you would only guess as to the ROI of AT.
I believe that the some of the new marketing concepts discussed here are implemented in AT then they will further decrease in market share.

AT has done a great job of portraying themselves as the 800 lb gorilla to dealers and the public.

Through our lead provider rating report, AT ranks as above average among all lead providers.

Even for dealers that have no idea what their ROI is for AT or any other lead provider (yes I know you guys don't call yourselves lead providers) the image of that 800 lb gorilla is too much not to be a part of.

They want to sell because they reached viable market penetration a while ago and realistic new sales growth is not there at least in this economy their revenue will do nothing but decline. They've recently consolidated top end management regionally from 4 national divisions down to only two (East & West) I would venture a guess that they are going to reduce force after their fiscal year ends in Dec. by reducing field sales operations by a significant amount. They've had a crazy year raising rates and renewing contracts early into a reccessive economy. I can't think of another possible way they could've alienated and pissed off their dealer accounts anymore than they managed to accomplish this year. As soon as the capital markets improve they'll dump it, they've already put 29 unprofitable newspapers up for sale along with Valpak.

PS. No way is their revenue up 23% this year. Their New Car Partnership product was a large failure, Alpha Product is too top heavy in this economy. They've had more cancellations & write offs than they've written in new business, ask your rep, they'll tell you (if their honest!)

Autotrader just took me out to lunch - thanks guys!

What a bombshell! No company is safe in this economy, I guess.

I doubt AT is truly "off the market" if another company offered the right buy price, I bet they'd sell.

I'm guessing they had to say it's not on the market now, think of the turmoil with AT employees, all the questions, etc.

I'm shocked that internal doc leaked to Edmunds, that's crazy. Or was it perhaps planned that way?

Ahh, who cares. I just wish people would start buying cars again.

You know, we all have our opinions of business's I can tell you that any company who has over 2,600 employee's and keeps adding new products, new jobs to the US Economy has to be "good people" in my book. Do I believe their rates are too high? "Maybe" Do I believe that their products work? "Yes, some more than others" Would the next owner's of AT.com be as good as COX? Now that raises flags in my decision making process. Parent companies are the reason for most .com failures. If cox needs the $ so bad they should make it a public trade company.

Cox initially had plans to take ATC public back in 2000 but decided not to and keep it private. Cox has come to the table late in trying to sell of some of it's unprofitable divisions, newspapers, direct mail, etc. now news that they are looking to unload ATC. I'm trying to see their ultimate strategy here, is it to remain in the cable & communications biz exclusively and reduce debt? ATC had tremendous double digit growth for every year since it's inception in 1997 but their direction in the past couple of years has become arrogant and downright greedy. I'll tell you what thought, I'll bet there are a bunch of ATC execs scrambling to update their resumes on Monster.com right about now.

I had no clue that so many (outsider) expert opinions existed on ATC as I have just read. In actuality, ATC has and continues to produce astonishing growth in all categories. I happen to also know that there are not many companies out there these days that have the courage to continue trying new things (for the benefit of both the consumer and dealers) like ATC has. One writer states ATC failed with their New Car program. Failed? They haven't failed. Does this writer actually think an ATC New Car product is going to roll out nationwide to thousands and thousands of ATC dealers and reach the dominating position ATC has produced in the Used Car arena...overnight? I don't think so. It is and will no doubt remain a strong focus point of growth for ATC for the next many, many years ahead. All in all, in my book, I applaud ATC for their innovation, the creation of thousands of jobs and their commitment to community (you did know that ATC gives hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of thousands each year to St. Jude Childrens hospital didn't you?)...OK...enough is enough. It is obvious that I am a believer in this company and quite frankly I feel they are a valuable contributor to the retail automotive communities (and consumer shoppers)all across our great nation...."Nuff said"

T.D. Mac

I liked the "Lightnup" moniker much better.

Obviously T.D. Mac is a loyal ATC employee. Get your resume together Mac!!!

T.D. Mac said "nuff said" like Bernie Mack. I like that statement. Though, nothing wrong with some industry experts sharing their opinions. We all "believe" in our vendors. Keep in mind some of us are'nt so (outsider).

Not to worry Ryan. There's still only one Lightnup and it's not T. D. Mac. But there's really so many more important things to do than hang out here correcting the self-appointed ATC "experts," most of whom have been gleefully predicting the company's demise since the day it appeared on the scene and rocketed to the prominence it holds today.

Kvetch amongst yourselves. I'm too busy providing good service and great value to my ever-increasing customer base of dealers.

Lightnup out.

Yesterday, my Autotrader rep had me update my Autotrader profile, bought me lunch from Panera Bread, gave me a new mouse pad, helped celebrate our several AT sales from last month,-and gave me great customer service!

Where is my Cars.com Rep? Who is he?

T.D. Mac - who the heck are you then? An 'inside' expert? lol You just sound like someone blowing a lot of hot smoke.

In the end, COX is having issues with ATC as well as their other automotive sites under COX Auto Trader.

Unfortunately he isn't blowing smoke. Even in this economy ATC is up 23%. How many companies can boast that? Imagine the power ATC would hold if they were purchased by Microsoft or Google!!! I think it would be game over for almost all other automotive classified sites. Those are the names that come to mind if ATC were to be sold.

ATC and like kind will be around for little awhile longer. The fact is that most outside companies ie Microsoft do not have the stomach or interest to go after the auto industry business. They could knock them out in one swoop. It's hard right now for the good dealer's but it's the best thing to happen in getting rid of the snakes in the grass owners and gain the respect from consumer's and other industries.
If the factories where better at marketing, AT and Cars would be smaller market players.
Why are people searching for certified using At or Cars? I don't know the percentage of certs but why should any dealer have to market outside and not from factory referred.
Sorry for the ramble...All I can say is CARMAX is here and COSTCO CARS is coming sooon.

ATC will be around for years to come in some form or fashion via Cox or someone else. It has tremendous name recognition alone. As for the growth, you have to remember, ATC doesn't soley rely on the auto dealers to grow revenue. Yes, auto dealer sales are down reflective of all advertising, but there are other revenue streams. OEMs, related products, partner contribution, etc. Any smart company is diverse with their income streams. Take car dealers selling parts and service, extended warranties, etc. Their sole income is not just selling cars. It's been a great growth curve and just like any company, there are adjustments made to react to the market.

Alan ur right, yeah ATC is way too popular to go away alltogether that's crazy!

Jamie ATC being up 23% in revenue for the year is crazy too!
C'Mon, it was an estimate.

ATC being bought by MS or Ggl??
Now that's a stretch.

LOL, Costco Cars??
Will I have to buy a pack of 3?

They are up that much. Remember it is ongoing revenue so because in the beginning of the year was up so much it carried them through the rest of the year. Plus the fact that they power the used car site on Edmunds, KBB, NADA Guides and msnautos their traffic also increased. Also, new car is NOT a failure. Maybe you weren't educated the right way. I know a lot of very successful dealers on both Alpha, Tower Ads, New Car etc. There are 2 Honda stores in my market from the same group that have 42% market share (6 in my market all together) and all they do besides having great locations is AT.com and Cars.com. It's all in the education.

COX has their hands in many pots. ATC is one of if not the most profitable of those pots. Print is dying a slow death just like the nightly news due to the internet and all day TV news sources such as CNN, FOX News, and CNBC. If you got your leg chopped off you go to the hospital not the first aid kit. If COX could get a tidy profit from selling ATC to stop ALL the bleeding then they would. Fact is they tested the waters and found no one willing to give them what they wanted. COX made the most profitable choice and kept ATC. Good companies make quick choices. After less than a month COX did what made the most sense and pulled ATC off the block.

To show how smart they are just look at the major restructuring COX did this year. Yeah it pissed a lot of customers and employees off but they really did not cut a lot of employees. COX instead shuffled what they had and cut fat from the top. This is the type of crap the Detroit "SHRINKING Three" should have been doing over the past 30+ years! A smart business makes changes BEFORE a crisis occurs.

Cox has their hands in many losing pots also. I would expect some sort of major reorganization at ATC early next year if it hasn't already been started as we speak. One thing is for sure and thats that they better come up with a new amazing product at an affordable rate that seperates them from the competition, otherwise they'll continue to stagnate with what little new business they are signing in this economy right now.

Autotrader.com is a great idea and will always be a great idea. Their biggest downfall is the lack of organization. Autotrader.com is the most un-organized company that I have ever had the pleasure of working for. I met alot of great people while I was there, but I also encountered alot of people that were nothing more than sneaky snakes. I look for their marketshare to drastically decrease in the near future. Dealers are learning more and more about marketing their own website and you can ask any dealer this question, " Where do you get your most leads from?" I would say that 99% of the dealers would say from their own website. Well Happy Holidays!

I read your post and agree with you. I was at ATC for a long time and met some great folks but also encountered several "snake" mid level exec's. They are by far the most disorganized company I've ever worked for, really knee jerk reactionary type of constant shuffling that was not well thought out at all. The most profitable dealerships I had relationships with while at ATC concentrated on growing their own websites as destinations just as vigorously as they did in marketing with ATC, Cars, etc. Search has grown consideably in the past several years and ATC's audience has remained flat.

Well there's alot of chatter about ATC as a company, sales, etc... but we all have to agree they are still THE major auto shopping website for the public. Plus let's face it, all of automotive is down right now.

My opinion, ATC has to restructure their pricing and sales model for dealers more than anything.

Their current model is big money/big dealers will get the top placement, and most exposure/leads, but that's not the current online ad trend for their future growth.

ATC should take a more diverse vehicle focused exposure approach online. Offering a broad scope online ad model, and consultative sales approach which would be dependant upon individual dealership budgets. Even expanding outside of ATC services with unique online partnerships, website services vendors, SEO/SEM, and several internal marketing segments/placement campaigns, and maybe added benefits for the dealers that use their print books, or auction services (manheim) too.

I hate saying it, 'cause it's way overused, but they need to think outside their old skewl box to deliver more exposure for dealers big or small.

Wow, a whole lot of ATC bashing here. I'm a sales rep with ATC and I had the best year of my life. If ATC isn't a dealers best source for reaching used car shoppers , they are doing something wrong. As far as price, I was a rep for the publications for 5 years and dealers spent way more money for way less exposure.In some cases , they still do. If your rep isn't helping you get the best bang for your buck, call me , I'll get you straightened out! If you aren't a car dealer and you are commenting on here, get a life. Oh , and by the way.. I've never had a dealer cancel ATC in my territory,and I increased my business this year by 68%.And for you dealers, take advantage of the tough times right now to fine tune your business. You will be in a great position when things turn around. Hang in there.

ATC is down some like the whole industry, maybe sold, maybe not ... but it wont be going anywhere anytime soon. There would simply be another site just like it immediately step in. Why would we allow that? I analyze dealer accounts there and honestly can tell you the strong are surviving well but the weak are collapsing; its a natural market correction given the proliferation and over-saturation in the dealer market from massive industry growth over the last 15 years. As new affordable, possible subsidized, green technology hits the markets it will surge.

I am not one to bash much but not for nothing. Over the last few years Autotrader has really fallen in terms of customers. What got to me was that I had a meeting with my rep at my last store. I had him wait for me because I was in meeting running about 15 minutes late. He just got up and left without even calling me. When I called him he never called me back and ignored me. Meanwhile I wanted to make some important changes to market my inventory. He ignored me and we never did talk. I wanted to cancel them so bad because I got so angry but since my marketing director was in charge he would not do it. If I had the power to sign checks I would have canceled that account the same day. It is not fair to pay so much money every month and get ignored. I wish Autotrader had a CSI so I can bury them on the survey.

Well, and inside source at Autotrader's headquarters says they've had at least 2 rounds of internal layoffs, and are about to have another round the week before Christmas. It definitely seems as though they are streamlining their operations to boost their value. Some of the departments I was told that were affected are the IT Department, Development, Private Seller, Outside Sales, Dealer Support, and Quality. It doesn't look as though the company cares about the service it provides anymore, it just cares about how much they can get in terms of money from a new buyer. They can kiss thier J.D.Power awards goodbye. Sad times for the industry leader, and very sad times for the hundreds let go just before the holidays. I'm going to ride this out, but if things keep going the way they're going, I may have to switch to Cars.com.

Stan Sher, I assure you that Autotrader wouldn't be happy to hear you are getting service like that. If you contacted the Manager in that area, I'm sure you could have the problem corrected.
Porsche 996, your sources are incorrect. The company is reorganizing by trimming the fat. The fact is that they are beefing up Dealer sales and have changed their training towards better service. If you truly saw the value of internet advertising, you would already be advertising with Cars.com and cut other non-effective advertising. I am totally blown away by the negativity from the dealers on here. Dealers in my market embrace Autotrader.com. If you aren't seeing the value, sit down with your rep and ask them to help you.I guarantee you that if you don't see Autotrader as your best advertising source, YOU are doing something wrong. If you think it's too expensive, advertise on TV, Radio or the Newspaper. Now there's money well spent!!

wolfdog, what kind of "service" is stan talking about? I agree with you, our dealers (meaning owners) absolutely love what we do for them because the reps are held accountable to service. We do phone training, grill outs, food drives, merchandising contests, etc. We encourage Cars.com and compete with radio, TV and newspaper. Dealers think we compete with Cars when we never have. They also don't hold us to emails. That only took 4 years!

Autotrader.com will be up for sale again very soon. They were trying to sell to Internet companies but none of the potential customers want the print portion. Oh good, problem solved, they've shut down all the pubs! They are only printing Auto Trader pubs private party because AutoTrader.com manages all of that. 3500+ fantastic employees lost their job on Monday (via an email!) due to this fact and poor, poor upper management.

Another magazine will start up. I've heard rumors about it already. I heard Cox layed of 3500 employees nationwide. I wish the x-employees well, maybe they can help with the new magazine.

I heard of new magazines starting up all over the US independantly... soon to be ex-employees are wanting to capitalize on the solid lead results dealers have with print only.
Targeted free print works very well if it's done right. The leads are worth it, and there's a definetely a niche in any market for a print book.

More and more dealers have websites that are able to index their inventory on Google. As internet awareness increases as it relates to searching for vehicles there is a chance that this could have a major affect on companies like Autotrader in the near future. We debate this all the time but it's possible that one day it may be normal for a consumer to type in "long tail Keywords" especially as it relates to used cars. If this does happen Autotrader and others who use their model will be in trouble. I do believe the reps provide quality service, however my belief in the pricing structure and their business model decreases on a monthly basis.

I have been selling internet advertising to dealers for the past year. The GM's number one complanit was Auto Trader and Auto Trader.com. They knew that the name was out there for Auto Trader and everyone knew them this is why the company that owns Auto Trader started buying up the companies that sell the picture taking and window lables. So they can keep charging the dealers outrages prices.
Good luck Auto Trader the dealers are catching on now you might be hurting one day.

The fact that ATC was pulled off the market only is indicative that the company needs to enhance their curb appeal before Cox can reap the true value of the ATC. Right now ATC is saddled with a dinosaur from the past, Autotrader magazine. The have recently closed the magazine and tried to integrate some employees into ATC. The are currently working in teams comprised of an ATC rep, and a magazine rep to convert as much magazine business as possible to the ATC side of the house. Once this is done, it makes the purchase of ATC much more streamlined.

One hurdle that Cox has to look very closely at is how ATC employees, predominantly managers were compensated. A part of the compensation plan are LTIP’s (Long Term Income Plan) these are tied to the overall value of the company, which as of January 08 was $4.3 billon as confirmed by independent auditors. Currently Cox owes million’s of dollars to managers. To off set this possible back breaking pay out Cox and ATC have very quietly begun to rid themselves of long terms managers for what ever cause they can find. If the manager is terminated for cause, then Cox does not have to pay the LTIP‘s. Some people have questioned this practice of terminating proven successful managers, as it is not in the best interest of the company.

However the fact remains, Cox saves millions, and if the company is sold it is no longer Cox’s problem. The fact that Cox as sold almost all of its newspaper business ( save for 4) the infusion of cash that the sale of ATC would bring would be quite welcome. This is a big departure from the overall corporate philosophy that has served the Cox family well over the years. Cox valued employees and fostered a feeling of family in the various corporate entities. That has changed over the last few years as the presidents of the individual divisions have been given carte blanch to do what is necessary . Sandy Swartz the author of the (fire experienced manager plan) and president of Cox Autotrader announced generous severance packages for long time trader magazine employees they received one ( 1) week. The is not the way the Cox family as done business in the past. The trend does not bode will for current and future Cox employees, with hatched men like Swartz around. This once proud Company that was founded by James M. Cox over a hundred years ago lists as one of its company values :

Our employees are our most important resource. We encourage entrepreneurship and initiative. We recognize and reward achievement.

Well if employees are like a natural resource’s and conservation of those resources means thinking “Green” then the future of Cox is decidedly not green nor environmentally friendly.

Well said Former ATC Employee. Anyone still with them in management for over 4 or 5 years with any LTIP "shares" better put on armor to stop the knife in the back. I have heard of a couple folks I've known who this has happened to in the past year also, so it's totally believable. I've also spoken to a couple magazine reps who are pretty much expecting to be let go in about three months, once their relationships are milked over to ATC with new business contracts.

Former and Ex-ATC, it definitely all falls in line with what's been going on lately. Just about everything you hear in rumor these days is based in fact. A former co-worker and I started hearing bits, pieces, and rumors, and we predicted, EXACTLY how the demise of Cox Auto Trader/Auto Mart was going to go down, and we got it down EXACTLY, even to the utilizing of the print reps to convert revenue before they ditch them, which, mark my words, is the plan. Why do you think they are only giving them a $25,000 base as opposed to the $40,000-$45,000 starting base all other advertising consultants make. They are looking for a low-cost solution to converting dollars. Sure, they are paying them some heavy commissions up front (200% on converted print revenue), but in the long run, they overall value of the upsell is worth more.
It's all way too transparent.

(I am, 20yrs car guy, 10 on my own,$34million sals in 2008) ATC is expensive, but so is a Duramax Diesel, ATC gets the job done.===Real issues==Dealers aren't using the tools they have to be effective. I've seen dealers with partnership packages that still have dealer specialties to come take 9 pics....they pay for 27 but only use the 9...they have the best placement on ATC and have lame descriptions, I'm sure that's a good indicator on how they handle the customer when they call in.........

They billboard at Times Square is expensive....but you never see it blank...or with some corn-ball hokie ad.....or half used.....

Dealers right now are targeting ATC as a big ticket expense to cut....they should train staff instead....that's what I do now....there is a great need for it...

I have been in the car business 45 years and sold a trillion dollars in cars.ATC is only as good as the ROI it produces. It should at minimum be double in terms of the spend.

Have you looked at the Vehix website lately? It is a much nicer site than Autotrader. It looks like the code was written in the last decade, not 1999 like ATC. Very nice filtering options, although sadly they still don't enforce consistency in the listings (if you don't put trans type in a listing, a shopper can't filter for it).

AT website is a PITA to navigate and looking for specific vehicle characteristics is useless. They don't seem to be putting any money into IT and development; could it be they are trying to cut expenses to make it attractive to a buyer?

veh...

ATC has been piloting different versions live for the past several months. You will be seeing the new version shortly.

The ATC subject is always interesting to say the least. As a former employee of ATC and ATP over an 8 year period I am amazed at the loyalty from dealers. Does ATC work? Off course. Is it worth the investment? That is up to the dealer and the ROI they are expecting. Does ATC innovate? Without a doubt. But how does that innovation help the dealer? Is real or perceived? Again, the answer is subjective. In the beginning ATC was to be a targeted advertising venue. They thought the buying process would be changed and the need for dealers per se would change dramatically. Well that didn't happen. Now they are introducing products such as the ALPHA programs for thousand more. How does a dealer resolve the ROI question? Some have because of basic marketing and advertising models. We spend the money we HAVE to be getting our moneies worth. I question that logic and do openly as a competitor of ATC on the streets. While they serve a need, does the invention of new more expensive prducts really increase ROI or just justify them building brand recognition for a future sale? There are many opportunities out there for dealers, but the "newspaper syndrome" has taken hold, "I need to be there and in a big way since my competition is there". Mr.Perry and crew have done a great job, building their brand on the dealers back.

So after reading all of this, there is another rumor that AutoTrader is back on the market. Is there any truth to this rumor? Is Cox once again trying to unload?

The likely suitors would be Google, Microsoft, or somebody with VERY deep pockets. Imagine what Google could do to the market if they owned ATC.

Super Sales- that's interesting because I've heard that same thing recently. A lot of their recent behavior can be explained by them dressing up AutoTrader.com for sale. I'm curious if anyone else has heard this, seen any signs, or has any additional info?

Lol, there are several Ad sites that are giving them a run for their money. Autotrader been sending attorneys after people so they can monopolize. So, if you have autotrader in your name you are F'ed. They think they created other peoples domains names and paid for it. There is a site that is awesome looking in design and their ranking isn't bad for the time they been on the net called Bogartautotrader.com. They got attacked - funny thing is it seem like they waited to see if they were goin gto do good then hit them from a repliable source of mine. Internet monopoly I mean you are goin gup against COX, corporate gangbangers it seem. If you are a small guy they can't handle competition what do they do - gangbang in suits and ties instead of man up and give people that made them rich help like all those dealerships that are going down Im sure they made COX and AutoTrader.com rich so when they going to help the car industry like lowering their fucking feed prices. I know BogartsAutoTrader.com was doing this and people were happy. Spread the word, in my opinion they went after them BogartsAutoTrader.com because they are honest and is trying to help the car industry instead of rob them when the economy is down. Our country needs more honest businesses like BOGARTSAUTOTRADER.com. I won't doubt if Autotrader start harrassing them to give up their domain name. Thats what wussies do in my book must know you suck when you got to worry about the little guy, lmao sad. Money gangbangers once the corporate peanut butter kicks in they will get you stuck like a ghetto with no option "AUTOTRADER".